to dog or not to dog, that is a question

[untonuggan]

Based on some conversations I've had with jelazakazone and others, and because it's puppy/kitten season right now and there are a lot of cute adoptable animals who need homes. (Our local shelter is so overrun with kittens they stop taking in older cats for a month or two because kittens are easier to move in and out, and often they just waive or greatly reduce cat adoption fees. That is how many cats they have.)

An incomplete list of reasons to adopt a puppy

1. They are really freaking cute, and I swear there is some sort of addictive puppy smell that you do not get with other dogs.
2. You have a chance to socialize and train them the way you want (like: get used to kids! other dogs! the noise of schoolbuses and the feel of concrete and grass and gravel beneath your paws! getting your nails trimmed! people being around your food bowl!); if you put the time in this can minimize the habits people can find off-putting in shelter dogs (like 75 lb dogs who jump up on people, or sniff their butts, or raid trash cans)
3. It's easier to know where your puppy is coming from, so you can have a better chance of knowing something about their early life, genetic background, what socialization they may or may not have had as a young pup, and early veterinary history.
4. If you choose to get a dog from a breeder and you get a puppy, you can meet the pup's mother and even get a whole list of your dog's ancestors. This *can* be helpful in trying to screen out diseases a breed may be genetically predisposed to, though honestly because a lot of breeds are totally cool with things like line breeding and genetics anyway is a roll of the dice let me just say right now there is no way to guarantee your dog will be disease free no matter where you get them from.
5. They are really freaking adorable.
6. If you want to train them for a specific purpose -- like a therapy dog, or do something like agility, it can help to start early.

An incomplete list of reasons to adopt an older dog

1. Puppies have a fuckton of energy, and also once they hit about two years old they go through this stage of adolescent rebellion where they act like they have never heard any of the words coming out of your mouth before. An older dog? For someone like me with Fibromyalgia, it can be helpful to miss some of that.
2. Depending on the older dog, they may already be housebroken (although they may need to know that your house is "their territory", especially if you have other animals).
3. You can skip the laborious process of All The Socializing that happens with puppies, and focus on any issues you want to work on with this adult dog. Some things like "resource guarding" (getting protective of their food bowl) are harder and I wouldn't want to deal with in a home with a lot of kids around; jumping up on people just needs a lot of consistency and some time/patience (they learned before that jumping meant time with people because you are so fun and exciting! so they just need to learn that they don't get to greet new people until all four paws are on the ground, and this goes for any new person they meet even when you're out walking and you have to school the person who wants to pet your dog).
4. In rescue situations, a lot of the older dogs who I've seen surrendered tend to be given up for reasons of "owner passed away" or "family is moving overseas/for financial reasons to somewhere that does not allow dogs." These are often people who really love their pets but just *cannot* keep them, versus puppies born in rescue (or to a breeder) or juvenile dogs surrendered to the shelter by people who adopted a puppy and realized that a dog was more than they could handle (and who probably did *not* do a good job of socializing said dog). What I'm saying is that in a shelter, older dogs are usually your hidden gems. Some of them, admittedly, were rescued from some pretty horrible situations and can have hang-ups -- but with ones who are still sweet with humans, they are SO GLAD to be out of there that they will love you forever.
5. People worry about adopting older dogs because of health problems. That puppy will one day be an older dog and face these same health problems. Puppies also have health issues, ranging from needing a lot of vaccines to having developing immune systems (we weren't supposed to bring puppy-Rogue out in public until he'd had his full range of shots, for example, and puppies in rescue are just exposed to a lot of stuff by default while in foster/shelters/adoption events).
6. Older dogs tend to be really good nap companions, or "snuggle up by your feet while you do your thing".

An incomplete list of things to keep in mind when adopting a canine

1. If you go on vacation, you will need to make plans for your dog. Do you bring them along and find travel and lodging that accepts dogs? Do you get a dogsitter to stay in your house? Do you pay to lodge your dog in a kennel, and is it one that just keeps your dog in a cage all day?
2. If you work long hours, what is your dog doing during the day? How do they use the bathroom? What keeps them entertained so they don't "invent" entertainment?
3. Dogs think they are goats, but they are not goats. My mom is on a rescue list-serv that just had a "what is the weirdest thing your dog ate or tried to eat," because someone's dog ate the end of a rubber spatula and the person was hoping she would not have to pay for surgery to remove it from her dog. Part of dog ownership is developing a sense of "what is that noise what is the dog eating" and looking for food people have thrown by the side of the road and steering your dog away from them, and also being able to induce vomiting in your dog if they ate something like poison mushrooms. (Then you have to put them on a bland diet of cooked chicken and rice or oatmeal for like three days, and inevitably the first thing you pick off the vet's list is something your dog will refuse to eat after you've spent like 30 minutes preparing it.)
4. Even if your dog is housetrained, there will occasionally be accidents if you are out too long or in a new environment or Mercury is in retrograde. Also, occasional things like dog vomit and of course picking up poop on dog walks. Are you cool with effluvia? I'm super desensitized to most of it due to dog ownership. If you cannot deal with a certain amount, do not get a dog.
5. Whatever the initial cost of getting a dog (adoption fee, plus supplies and food and all that jazz) is, factor in an additional budget for some random unexpected vet bill for something like vaccines or a wellness check or "some weird symptom that I'm not used to as a new dog owner and I want to know if my dog is dying" or your dog ate something poisonous.
6. Someone in your house has to like walking dogs, because they are good for your dog's physical and mental health. A good thing to consider is that they are a year-round thing. Snowmaggedon? OK our dog was older so we dug trenches, but you still need a way to get your dog outside and once it started melting we were out there again. Hot weather? Early morning walks. Bonus: it's a really good motivation to exercise if you *have* to walk the dog or they look at you with sad eyes.
7. No matter how wonderful and amazing your dog (like Rogue), there will always be some habit that is kind of annoying. When Rogue was a puppy, we thought it was super cute that he liked to "tunnel" under furniture after toys like the terrier he was. Then he grew and could not fit and we were like "oh shit what did we do," because there was some mild furniture damage and even when that stopped if he was particularly bored he'd put a toy under a sofa and bark at it until you got it out, then repeat unless you just confiscated the toy.
8. You can feed your dog inexpensive food, but there have been things like jerky from China causing unexplained animal death and basically the consensus (as much as there can be any consensus about pet care!) seems to be to feed your dog the best quality food you can afford, because you can ultimately help prevent issues like diabetes and heart disease later on. Like with people. Some people are all about the homemade/raw diets, but I am a fan of good quality dry foods like Origin if you can afford it (like buying in bulk or buy 12 bags get one free systems). Whatever the case, don't just grab any bag off the shelf.
9. Dog dental health is also an important thing. A lot of the toys marketed to dogs can actually damage their teeth (which we found out from a canine dental specialist *after* having to get some of Rogue's teeth extracted), but of course when they're puppies they really need durable stuff to chew otherwise they just eat their toys. Like IDK any young dog who can actually have a plush toy, because they all just rip it apart in 30 seconds and then start ingesting it. But there's complex stuff to consider with dog supplies just like with human kid toys, like "does this have bpa in it?" or "will I have to pay thousands in dental bills because my dog chewed nylabones too enthusiastically and also sticks?"
10. No matter what kind of dog you get and how "low shed" they are supposed to be, at certain points of the year or when they are older or maybe just all the time, you are going to have to get used to dog fur on your clothes and in your house. There are pet vacuums and microfiber cloths and trying not to wear black? But it's just a thing that comes with animals.
11. Your dog will probably die before you. When they do, it is really really terrible. If you and their caretakers die before them, it is also awful if they end up in a shelter grieving for you so my advice is make plans with someone the way you would for guardianship of your kids (there are also animal sanctuaries you can pay into).
12. Depending on who tends to feed your dog breakfast and when, it can make sleeping in rather difficult. Also no matter how small your dog is, they are very good at hogging the bed (though I do know people who have trained their dogs to sleep in beds or crates I'm just a sucker for dog snuggles).

OK that sounds like a fuckton of work, why does anyone get a dog no matter how cute they are?

>
1. My relationship with Rogue literally saved my life on multiple occasions. I know not everyone has serious brain weasels, but when I was in a really dark place sometimes the only thing that made me ask for help was just knowing that he as a dog would never understand if I suddenly disappeared and I could not do that to him because I loved him too much. I'm still here because of that dog.
2. Dog training is work, true. Depending on you, your time, energy, inclination, it can actually be really fun. And there's lots of different kinds! Agility is hella fun but you have to run too. Flyball looks like a lot of fun, but by the time we considered it Rogue already liked keep-away too much. Therapy dog is also cool if your dog has the right temperament; I have both taken my therapy dog on visits and been the recipient of therapy dog attention and let me tell you it's amazing either way. Some of the competitions are only open to AKC certified dogs, but there's an increasing number of training classes or non-AKC sponsored events for rescues. ALSO if you got into something like tracking and your dog was super good at it, you could always do something like volunteer search and rescue on weekends. How cool is that?
3. I totally listed my dog training on my college application. I have no idea if it helped, and probably I wouldn't list it on any recent job applications, but I think it helped? Also, these skills are all pretty good fallbacks assuming I ever have the spoons to work again. Dog walking, getting a CPDT certificate, training as a vet tech, whatever. (I don't think I have vet school in me, school eats my soul.) So *ahem* parents, these are things to consider?
4. Lots of studies I'm too lazy to link right now about how animals are good for heart health and mental health.
5. Basically, dogs are completely non-judgmental listeners. People have even started programs recently to help kids gain confidence reading by reading aloud to dogs for 20 minutes a week at local libraries. Personally I like to just snuggle an animal and spill my secrets (sometimes through telepathy). But whatever horrible thing about yourself you share, they do not care. Especially if your pockets smell like food.
6. They make you laugh. Forever. I mean, there are things that Rogue did on the first day that I met him that *still* make me laugh when I remember them. And even on days when you are kind of pissed at them for whatever they ate/rolled in, they still just have this way of being hilarious or adorable or looking at you with wise kind eyes that is wonderful and makes you forgive them.
7. I think this last one really depends on how much training and time you spend with your dog? But Rogue and I really developed like a coded language kind of like twin-talk or how with this one friend I've had since I was eight sometimes we communicate via showtunes. It was really jarring to walk another dog after he passed and not be able to give subtle body language/tongue clucks and have the dog respond to things like "hey there's someone coming get out of the way" or "hold on a minute I'm still picking up your poop." I will say, though, that I'm developing that rapport with Chance (and Lily too, though mostly she will do whatever if she thinks there is food involved and otherwise she is just her fabulous self).
8. You can play all sorts of fun games with them besides just walking them! Like hide and go seek and fetch and "where did I hide the treats", and basically you will never be bored if you have a dog.

tl;dr Dogs are work, because they rely pretty much totally on you for their care: food, health, access to the bathroom and fresh water, certain forms of entertainment, getting to see other dogs. They can be little butts about certain things, especially if you haven't trained them that "begging at the table doesn't mean treats." OTOH having a dog in your life can be really super rewarding, you just have to decide: am I willing to put in the time, effort and money to reap the rewards of having a dog around? Or does that payoff not feel enough for me? Because if not, you're not going to want to walk your dog or do the training, they will get bored and frustrated and destructive, and no one will end up happy with the situation.

note: feel free to link, but please keep it linked to this username not the one I have on twitter or legal name
Anyone else have any thoughts or insights on the subject?

Comments

[the_rck]

My daughter wants a dog, and my husband wouldn't mind having one, but I'm against it because I'm pretty sure I'd end up doing 90% of the work and resenting the hell out of the dog. I am, after all, the one who's home all day with 'nothing else to do.' I am only mildly allergic to dogs, so I probably, with the right medication, could live with a dog. I just keep holding up the allergy when talking with my daughter rather than explain the fundamental problem.

I just-- I don't enjoy other people's dogs. (I don't tend to enjoy pets in general, not just dogs.) I think that I'd be a terrible dog owner and that the dog and I would both be miserable. And because I'm home all the time, we wouldn't be able to get away from each other.

There's also the fact that, in spite of wanting a dog, my daughter is terrified of any dog that barks and/or jumps even a little bit.

Anyway, I sometimes feel like a bad human being for not wanting a dog.

[untonuggan]

You sound like an excellent human being for recognizing your limitations and keeping the dog's well being in mind. Plus, there is also the addition of your daughter's current age + dog's remaining lifespan related to when she is likely to leave home. Who cares for the dog if she goes to live in a pet-free dorm room? I am guessing it is not your husband.

Trust me, spend about five minutes in rescue and you see a lot of animals returned by people in exactly your situation. After a lot of time in rescue, it's really easy to get angry at people for not realizing that "animals are not things" or that they require a lot of care, when really people just want their kids to grow up with a dog or their kid won't stop talking about how great dogs are and they want to make a kid happy and help out a rescue animal...and then it's just a terrible situation for everyone because of all the reasons you just described.

People want to get animals out of shelters/rescues and into homes, but trust me if you know you are not able to be that home that you are doing the right thing by holding that boundary.

It's like I know I do not want human babies. I cannot even with the sleep deprivation, and even with older kids I'm like, "What the heck would I do with a child if I'm in the hospital?" Plus authorities want you to *watch your kids* at all times now, and what I like about cats and dogs is I don't go to jail for leaving them home alone or putting them in a crate if I need them to not eat things while I am focusing on something else. Also I know some people make the health-issue-and-child-thing work, I just...do not have enough sustained interest in *my own* kids to put the effort in. Also teh moniez. So yay people who want to have kids, that's great for you! I will be over here not raising kids who resent their mom who is causing emotional trauma by having kids she didn't want and not being able to afford a decent therapist for them.

[untonuggan]

Also, I think part of the problem is that there aren't any real opportunities for kids who don't have their own animals to volunteer with animals because of all the legal stuff. When I was younger, there were still some limitations but I shadowed someone at the National Zoo for a day and I think the limits were "no direct contact with animals, and no using knives to prepare the food". But it was pretty awesome, and I got to do a bunch of other stuff. Now I think you have to be 18 to do pretty much anything there.

Some of our local shelters have summer camps for kids, which I think is awesome, but they fill up *super fast*. And while I think that getting kids used to "how do I pet a dog and know if it's friendly" or "how do I care for animals" is a really important function of animal welfare...they don't have the staff/resources to offer those camps for all the people who are interested.

Our rescue has a cat room where kids who are supervised can volunteer, but it's actually *harder* for us to have kids volunteer, because they can only come in time slots when school is out which are the easiest time slots to fill and there is that lingering worry about what if someone gets bitten. Most of the rescues in the area don't let kids get involved til they are 14 and only with parental supervision.

I see all this, and I know *why* people do it, but it's tremendously short-sighted because those kids are the future-pet-guardians and if you don't get a chance to figure out pet welfare when you're young how are you going to know how when you're older or have the motivation to take it on?

Anyway, sorry, personal rant about how I wish there were more opportunities for kids in your daughter's situation to be around animals even if they don't have them at home.

[the_rck]

Cordelia's Girl Scout troop kept talking about doing a field trip to the Humane Society. Our local Humane Society lets groups like a Girl Scout troop arrange to come in for a couple of hours to 'help' with the animals. I believe there's a per child fee, and I'm pretty sure there's an elaborate permission form involved. Unfortunately, our troop leader was in over her head just running meetings, so field trips of any sort have been extremely rare (and mostly of the let's-walk-to-the-park-down-the-street variety).

There will probably be some sort of petting zoo at the Ice Cream Social on Friday, and they usually have pony rides.

I do remember, when Cordelia was about three, taking her to a thing at the local children's museum where they had dozens of different types of animals in to interact with the kids. Cordelia was terrified of all the mammals but utterly fascinated by the reptiles. I think the boa was the only animal she actually touched that night. (There was a vast amount of hand sanitizer everywhere to protect the animals from children germs.)

this was longer than i expected; i had feels about petting zoos sorry

[untonuggan]

I have mixed feelings about petting zoos, if you're interested? I'll try not to PETA-out on you.

I feel like the way a lot of them are set up is problematic for the animals for a couple of reasons. One is that there often isn't a place for the animals to go 'okay, nope, I'm DONE with other animals and people and noises for awhile, peace out, I'm gonna go introvert for a bit over here in a place where small children cannot access me.' Like I as a human am an extrovert, and I do derive energy from spending time with people (especially if there's free food!), but eventually I hit a limit of "nooooope" and need a space to recoup.

A lot of petting zoos don't give animals a space to do that, and I feel that creates an environment where they are under undue stress which can contribute to health and behavioral issues. (The ultimate way for an animal to nope out of a situation is to bite or kick someone, which probably results in some shitty consequences for an animal even if they were giving really clear signs of "back the fuck off" that a kid did not pick up on.) I know some of the less-friendly ones sometimes get put in enclosures where you don't get to walk in with the animal, so they can sort of go towards the back, but they're still hella small for a goat to spend their days in, y'know?

Also, they don't provide a lot of mental/environmental stimulation for the animals. A lot of research has shown that for creatures ranging from gorillas to domestic cats, *finding* food rather than having it just sit there for you to nom endlessly can really contribute to both better health and also happiness. For housecats there's things like those slow feeder toys, where they have to work to get the food out. The NYC zoo has a really excellent gorilla habitat where keepers "hide" the gorillas' food rather than dumping it in the same place every day; this way the gorillas have a "job" that keeps their minds active throughout the day and prevents them from just stress-overeating.

In the petting zoos I have been to, the enclosures are usually just paddocks or stables with some straw and animals and water and people handing out food. Maybe the game is who can con the most food out of the people? But there aren't any things like, "Here is a thing for goats to climb on!" or "Here is a great spot for pigs to wallow!" or foraging for food things, because by design it's about people feeding animals.

Also, I feel like petting zoos aren't really teaching the right things? I mean they teach things like, "Here is a goat, it looks like this and feels like this and has horns and this is what they eat and they are not scary." But the underlying attitude of petting zoos (IMHO, I may be on a soapbox now) is kind of, "These animals are here for our entertainment. You want to see the goat, you give the goat food, it's *your* choice that you see the goat, you don't have to check with the goat about if he gives a fuck about seeing people for food today unless he's hiding in a corner or something and even then there are lots of other animals here for your enjoyment."

Sorry if this is kind of ranty! I just...like, I took horseback riding lessons when I was a kid and I really just wanted a horse to be my bestest friend. I thought my first lesson would be something like, "Here is how to approach a horse and here is what it means when their ears are in different places!" but instead it was things like, "This is what the tack is, here is how you put it on a horse, here is how you groom a horse," and it really felt like I was getting car driving lessons rather than lessons about interacting with a living creature.

tl;dr My wish is that the way we teach/taught our kids about animals didn't just include "cows go moo" but also things like, "What is the best way to treat cows?" and "How can you tell if a doggy wants to say hi?" and challenging questions like that which might make your child temporarily go vegetarian. That being said -- if you have limited options, it does help if your kid isn't actively scared of animals because maybe they'll get to the 201 or 401 stuff about animals later in life.

Re: this was longer than i expected; i had feels about petting zoos sorry

[untonuggan]

One of the things I did get to do as a kid both pre- and post- having a dog of my own that was actually really cool was doing some animal behavior type observations. (And citizen science!) There's a ton of citizen science now on the internet, and also you can just do stuff in your backyard. I think I still have this mini book I wrote and illustrated based on observations of this one squirrel trying to get on our birdfeeder. When I was at the zoo that one time, I spent some time taking notes in a scientific notation style about some of the small mammals' behavior.

I think any type of activity -- even if it's not involving directly handling animals -- which gives kids an opportunity to think about *why* an animal is doing what it's doing, or how/what it might be thinking or feeling is really really important. It basically helps with that whole "developing compassion for animals" thing.

[the_rck]

I feel like not wanting kids is an utterly reasonable thing. They're a lot of work and a lot of responsibility. It's much better to say no kids than to take it on and fail. And there are a lot of other valid reasons-- including just not wanting to-- not to have kids. I feel like a lot of people who push people to have kids don't acknowledge that. It's not some sort of moral failing not to want children.

It's been rewarding for me to see my daughter becoming more and more of a definite person, more responsible, more knowledgeable, more independent, but that's me, and it was our choice to do this, knowing that it would be a huge commitment.

I suspect that, if I accepted responsibility for a pet, I would carry through to the best of my ability. It's a commitment to a living thing, after all, and living creatures deserve to be treated well. I just would hate it, and I can't see that being good for anybody in our family.

[untonuggan]

That thing you said about it being okay to not want to be a parent? that is exactly what I feel about pet guardianship, same with all the undue guilt feelings.

[hunningham]

Really yes to the not getting a dog if you don't like dogs. Because even if your daughter is best in the world at dog-care and walks the animal twice a day and will pick up and deal with the poop, she's still going to leave home at some point and it's unlikely she'll be able to take the dog with her. In that case it's you, parent, looking after an elderly dog.

And so many other things to consider before you even reach that stage. A dog means a lot of commitment, a lot of change in your life and if you don't want really want one then don't get one. Hamsters are easy pets, dogs not so much.

[tyger]

Dogs! :D

I definitely wouldn't be a good dog owner, but I do love to visit them, yessss :D

[hunningham]

Now I'd love to get a dog, just life (dog-hating partner, living in a flat) make it completely impossible. But we have a rescue cat who is a delight.